Advertisement

Cymatic Sanskrit

topic posted Wed, October 19, 2005 - 4:21 PM by  Unsubscribed
Share/Save/Bookmark
Hi there!

Does anyone have photos or links to photos of the Shri Yantra cymatically produced by the Sanskrit character 'Om', by chance?
posted by:
Unsubscribed
Advertisement
  • Ed
    Ed
    offline 83

    Re: Cymatic Sanskrit

    Tue, November 1, 2005 - 9:03 AM
    You know, it's funny, I've heard that it's possible to create this symbol, but never seen a single picture of it. I own the Cymatics book too...weird.
    • Unsu...
       

      Re: Cymatic Sanskrit

      Wed, November 2, 2005 - 1:20 PM
      Yeah, I'd love to see it too! As much as I *want* to believe, it might get relegated to the "what the bleep do we know" school of pseudo-scientific wishful thinking.

      I mean, you'd think one could find pictures right here, in this very tribe, but...
      • Unsu...
         

        Re: Cymatic Sanskrit

        Wed, November 2, 2005 - 4:43 PM
        I don't know if anyone has ever actually seen (or captured) the image of the Shri Yantra manifesting from the sound (or frequency) of "Om" or "Aum"... I would love to see it happen, but there are parts of these theories that don't resonate (no pun) with my intuitive understanding of the fundamental principles behind wave patterns.

        I do believe that the Shri Yantra can be manifested from a tone (or combination of tones), but there is more to it than that. The sound of "Om" is a sort of abstract concept with a lot of possible variations. There isn't even really an established frequency for the sound. I've heard that it is Bb (aka Bflat). I've also heard it's F# (aka Fsharp). Also, many times ancient models of the links between sound and creation use the note "C" (Do) as the base note of the creation model (ie: Leonora Leet's book "The Secret Doctrine of Kabbalah"). So in other words, there are variations on the description of what "Om" is.

        My understanding of the description of Om is that it's a circular effect... from the open mouth vowel tone of Ahhh to the closed mouth vowel tone of Mmmmmm. There is also the Oh, Ooo and Eeeee sounds. But my point is that Om isn't merely a tone. It's also the vowel sequence too.

        To provide a simple illustration of what I mean: The vowels act as a filters or shapers that target and accentuate the various harmonic overtones. The overtone series mimics (is parallel to) the sequence of vowels from Mmmmm (lower harmonics) up to Eeeeee (upper harmonics).

        The Cymatic waveform model that would appear from the sound of the note C through the vowel tone A (Ahh) or O (Oh) would be different from one another. And they both would differ from the Cymatic waveform model that would appear from the sound of the note C through the vowel tone Mmmmmmm (closed mouth, but sustaining tone).

        In essence, the picture created from the sound of "Om" would not be a static one. It would change from the beginning to the end. Perhaps that is what the Shri Yantra is, a snapshot of something at both its beginning and it's end stages. However, I'm not sure anyone has ever demonstrated the theory.

        If you find a picture of the Shri Yantra (or any picture you like that you feel suits the message of the tribe) appearing as a lissajous figure, feel free to post it to the tribe pictures.

        One other thing I'm thinking about. The Shri Yantra has 5 descending triangles and 4 ascending triangles. It is not vertically symmetrical. I often see depictions of the Shri Yantra that do have vertical symmetry. These aren't the true Shri Yantri, but are stylized or simplified. Also, I see different artistic renditions of the Shri Yantra that don't have the specific geometric proportions that the Shri Yantra is supposed to have. There are many types of spirals, but only one "golden" spiral". The proportions have to be a certain way or it's something else. Also, being that the Shri Yantra isn't vertically symmetrical (it IS horizontally symmetrical) it might be hard to reproduce using some form of Cymatic technology because lots of times lissajous figures have both horizontal and vertical symmetry. As in the tribe pictures of Cymatic models, they have 3, 6 or 12fold (hexagonal) radial symmetry. Like snowflakes or pictures of water crystals in Masaru Emoto's books.

        Alot of people tend to -in my opinion- lose some of their groundedness when talking about things like this because it is linking their consciousnesses to a realm where all is one. They get impressions of things that are broad and expansive... like the oneness of the universe and the moment of creation being linked somehow to sound. The connections are real, but there are often gaps that must be bridged with the logical mind. I do it myself all the time in my wonderings... but there is a skeptical part of each of us that's there for good reason. To act as a string preventing the balloon from floating away. We must remember that this is a form of science which can and will eventually be taken seriously. In order to appeal to the skeptics, we should try and keep the lofty concepts from overshadowing the empirical studies that have advanced Cymatics as a form of legitimate science.

        I like Stan Tenen's three-dimensional model of the Shri Yantra as strings stretched within a wire-frame pyramid. And the 3d (stacked plates) model of the Shri Yantra as Mt. Meru leading up to Shambhala. I'll try to find some pictures of those and post them to the tribe photos. Some might not consider them to be directly related to Cymatics, but to me they are.

        ~Peace~
        --Craig--
        • Re: Cymatic Sanskrit

          Sat, December 3, 2005 - 5:21 PM
          Traditionally Bowls & Gongs have been known to sound the conceptual 'Om' your talking about.

          notes.technical-journal.com/albu...8.jpg

          "In essence, the picture created from the sound of "Om" would not be a static one. It would change from the beginning to the end. Perhaps that is what the Shri Yantra is, a snapshot of something at both its beginning and it's end stages. However, I'm not sure anyone has ever demonstrated the theory. "

          notes.technical-journal.com/albu...4.mpg

          Kind Regards,

          Dave in Oregon
          • Unsu...
             

            Re: Cymatic Sanskrit

            Wed, December 7, 2005 - 2:42 AM
            That is a beautiful video and it definitely shows the manifestation of some interesting geometric forms in the vibrating surface of the water. I guess I just don't see a clear correllation with the Sri Yantra or the Om symbol. Also, the sound of "Om" or "Aum" (from what I've read, seen & heard) is traditionally thought to be related to the progression of the vowel sounds and the harmonic overtones. Triggering the harmonic overtones through the vowel sounds would require a resonant filter (lowpass works best) and that doesn't really happen with a singing bowl unless one puts their mouth up to the edge and interracts with the raw vibration of the bowl. Then with that interraction, I have witnessed the harmonic overtones popping out with the mouth acting as the resonant filter.

            I loved watching that video! Thanks for posting the link to it!
            • Re: Cymatic Sanskrit

              Sat, December 10, 2005 - 11:25 AM
              "I guess I just don't see a clear correllation with the Sri Yantra or the Om symbol. "

              What correllation are you looking for? The Vedas are the source of the geometry of the Sri Yanta. Vedic Geometry displays the pure abstractions of concept.

              In the various arts we see various abstract concepts in action. What I offer is only a snapshot of these principles in motion.

              My wife comments that in Sanskri "Om" is pronounced with a nasel 'M'... which resonates the back of the mouth and top of the head. We both note that this is the same in principle as the bell or gong which resonates from center to edge to center again in cyclic fasion. The Om meaning to send vibration through the organism in the most fundamental way.

              "and that doesn't really happen with a singing bowl unless one puts their mouth up to the edge and interracts with the raw vibration of the bowl."

              You don't have a big enough bowl then. I have a 16" temple bowl that will resonate your torso at whatever vowel shape you adopt, you can just breath the vowels and it works. When you use a small bowl your just doing it in a micro cosm, you can still learn from it, but find someone with a big bowl!

              Glad you enjoyed the videos.

              Warm Regards,

              Dave in Oregon
        • Unsu...
           

          Re: Cymatic Sanskrit

          Sun, September 24, 2006 - 6:52 PM
          Sayr you are very interesting. Thank you...the way I see it too is that all 'vowel sequences' are varied rates of tonal waves - all waves have a tone. There are many smaller tones within the larger Tone creating an effect that sounds like One, but really are many.... yet all steming from the One.

          Ahhh.... the great mystic paradox: The One and the Many.

          How amazing we are.... the very existence of our seeming physical existence are made up of various tone producing waves....

          In the begining was the Word (sound - tone)....

          xo
      • Unsu...
         

        Re: Cymatic Sanskrit

        Sun, September 24, 2006 - 6:58 PM
        um...wow, this is an old post.

        I wonder if anyone of the founding fathers of this thread respond. hehe :-)
  • i found this picture

    Wed, October 4, 2006 - 11:31 AM
    www.unitedearth.com.au/sound.html

    This is the only picture ive been able to find.
    at the bottom of the page, there is a picture taken while someone is singing the word OM through the doctors invention "the tonoscope".

    cool
    • Unsu...
       

      Re: i found this picture

      Tue, October 17, 2006 - 2:01 PM
      I don't understand how the sound of "om" can create the shri yantra.

      The key (note) they're humming it in would be crucial to the shape, size and radial orientation of the image.

      The vowel stage at which that image was taken would drastically affect the anatomy of the image's structure.

      You would think if some actually did that, there would be more pictures from the session (different stages of the tone ~ after all, the sound of om isn't a pure tone, it's a vowel sequence that would have comprise a continuum/progression of images) or perhaps a bit more information as to what they did to create that image. There would be more images available I would think.

      I don't mean to be a doubter but I try and resist the urge to indulge in the new-agey theories unless it's either posed as theory or based on some kind of demonstrable evidence.

      I can see in the picture that what is underneath the super-imposed (white) shri yantra is hard to see. Why didn't they put another picture up without the super-imposed shri yantra that is obscuring the actual tonoscopic image?

      I would LOVE to see more of that!
      I'm hoping someday somebody will put better images of it up online or something... ?
      • Re: i found this picture

        Wed, December 13, 2006 - 12:09 PM
        True, there are many 'factors' to consider for any shape to occur in cymatics. Changing the size of the sheet alone changes the resonant response of the experiment. In researching this a bit, some conjecture that the cymatic Sri Yantra is created dynamically in stages, that various elements 'arrive' at various stages of the sounding of OM - this could explain why the image appears a bit 'shaky' - perhaps (just perhaps) this is a multiple exposure or multiple laying of the sound into a single image. IF this is the case - a video or a single still image would not reveal the Sri Yantra at (or as) a specific 'moment' in time. Again, IF this is the case, it actually enhances the 'mystery. for me. To understand these 'mysteries' I believe we have to step 'outside' of linear thinking to bear witness to wonder of it all. It would make sense to me that such a shape IS encoded into the entire sound - like a hologram - and can only be 'glimpsed' through a series of 'moments' layered together. Much like our own lives cannot be 'summed' in one single moment - rather we are a river of moments strung together. It would make sense that such a divine shape is rendered the same way.
        • Unsu...
           

          Re: i found this picture

          Thu, September 20, 2007 - 10:21 PM
          Rene, your statement about changing the size of the sheet will change the resonant response of the instrument is not correct. The vibrations are true universals and would only be altered in their expression if the surface has asymmetries or deformities on its surface. Om as well is a single, pure frequency. If multiple geomtries appear, the note is fluctuating.

          Generally one qualifies statements such as this. I have had the benefit of learning from a Cymatics practitioner who is a student of the now infamous Sir Peter Guy Manners. I am writing a book about his student's work, one Dr. Conroy Cooper, who utilized Cymatic frequencies as a medical modality. Generally speaking, Cymatics itself is merely metaphorical revealing the underlaying flow of sound that gives rise to form and presence.
          • Unsu...
             

            Re: i found this picture

            Fri, September 21, 2007 - 12:24 AM
            >> Om as well is a single, pure frequency.

            Where is there an official explanation of Om? I have heard various descriptions from people of what Om is... it always seems to me that it's more what Om means *to them*. And as far as what actual note (or frequency), it is.. I've heard it was Bb... I've heard it was F#, but I don't think anyone has determined the frequency that the universe resonates at. That would be like specifying what resolution we see in... or what color love is.

            >> If multiple geomtries appear, the note is fluctuating.

            If you were to run a pure sine wave through a resonant lowpass filter, depending on the filter's cutoff frequency, you would target a harmonic overtone (or two) within the pure tone and secondary geometries would begin appearing around that of the mean tone.
            However, it is harder to get audible overtones from a pure sine wave than from a sawtooth, square or other, "brighter" waves.

            To me, when nature speaks through toning, or chantings, you get that ringing of harmonic overtones. They are like waves dancing on the surface of what would otherwise be still water. The pure sine wave is like still water.
            • Unsu...
               

              Re: i found this picture

              Fri, September 21, 2007 - 10:38 AM
              Overtones are precisely the issue. Om matches the frequency of the Earth and resonates with the heart. Some of this I know from experts in the field as well I have read this 'somewhere' in an article realted to the Shuman Resonance (aka The L-Field). From memory, I think that Gregg Braden may have published findings on this. When I find it I will report. There is also the HeartMap Institute in California that identified that the human heart's frequency calibrates a relationship with the Shuman resonance. FYI, the Shuman Resonance has been getting faster since 1997 and will compelte a cycle of change in December of 2012. Some theorize that the instabilities on the Earth both geophysically and culturally are related to the feelings of anxiety related to these changes.

              I am a Cymatics researcher and am writing a book on the subject. Cymatic frequencies demonstrate the effect of waves in a controlled environment. Cymatics is also a medical modality though not yet legal in the US and some other countries (pharamceutical monopolies get the FDA's support). Inside information on Cymatics versus other frequency generating modalities is that Cymatics always uses five simultaneous tones; the core tone and two overtones on either side. This was a result of experiements by Sir Peter Guy Manners who found that the resultant shapes that arise in the lycopodium powder become three dimensional when five frequencies are simultaneously applied. This information is so esoteric that the subject of my book, Dr. Conroy Cooper, will not as yet tell me why this is the case. It is my opinion that science has matched nature and is simulating the process of physical manifestation. I further sepculate that seven tones is better than fie because the data will feed back on itself and create an independent universe. The point is that sound is form and presence and not merely audible data.

              The Universe is a dense vacuum teeming with every frequency. The physicist Dr. Joseph iller (might be James Tiller) describes Direct Space and Indirect Space and several others are nearly able to describe what is hapening in the space which is apprently voided. Marko Rodin the mathematician is doing incredible things that tangentially relate to this discussion. Tiller indicates that the density of the vacuum is some 1 trilion times more dense than the material world we call reality out to a distance of 200 million light years using hydrogen as the control material.

              >>To me, when nature speaks through toning, or chantings, you get that ringing of harmonic overtones. They are like waves dancing on the surface of what would otherwise be still water. The pure sine wave is like still water.

              I agree with this statement completely. I think that pure sine waves are a rare and unique experience possibly made present only in science or with 'superbly well internally managed individuals'
              • Unsu...
                 

                Re: i found this picture

                Fri, September 21, 2007 - 1:16 PM
                >> Om matches the frequency of the Earth and resonates with the heart.

                Which frequency is that?

                I appreciate that sentiment, but I maybe don't understand those claims enough to not see them as arbitrary. I try and remain a skeptic of certain broad conclusions like this only because it sounds so beautiful and amazing... yet seems like an ambiguous dogma or a reductive simplification of something much more profound. How can one frequency be deemed "the frequency of the Earth"? And what frequency doesn't resonate with the heart when it's sung with love?

                In Donnie Darko, it was said that "Cellar Door" is the most beautiful combination of words in history.

                >> It is my opinion that science has matched nature and is simulating the process of physical manifestation.

                That has been the case for a very long time.. just not in secular science. I believe this has been a technique of human beings forever.
                I'm just not certain that I would consider Cymatics to be a secular science. From my observation it is sometimes a "sacred science" and sometimes secular. With a label like "the frequency of the Earth" or "resonates with the heart", for me it begins to cross over into sacred science.

                But I wonder if that part is Cymatics. It's using Cymatics as a basis for its spiritual/religious implications, but was it what Hans Jenny was talking about? I don't think he would have specified a frequency for "Om". Many (if not just about all) people within the modern field of Cymatics seem to have high intentions and even consider it to be a very spiritual path. Sometimes I wonder if it's the Christianity to Dr. Jenny's Judaism.

                >> I further sepculate that seven tones is better than fie because the data will feed back on itself and create an independent universe.

                Not an idea for casual exploration on a soundsystem at a party, eh? :)
                • Re: i found this picture

                  Fri, September 21, 2007 - 3:46 PM
                  Can't help but interject a query here.
                  And I'll admit to profound ignorance on the technical specifics of allot what's being spoken of,but...
                  Long ago ,in another galaxy far,far,away,I sat in a room where a man was lecturing on the frequency of the Earth and he had a tuning fork...
                  I swear he said 128 cycles per second.
                  Is this at all relevant or have the three brain cells I have left misfired again...
                • Unsu...
                   

                  Re: i found this picture

                  Mon, September 24, 2007 - 11:50 AM
                  Point taken, Hans Jenny coined the term Cymatics, but it is Sir peter Guy Manners that formalized the medical delivery system that few know about at ths time despite it's early 20th century origins. Dr. Manners started his research in the early 1930's and updated his work in respond to Hans Jenny's discoveries. An organization in Atlanta named Cymatherapy have recently developed a new frequency generator (Cyma-1000) that adavances Dr. Manners work. Hans Jenny's work on the other hand is a graphic demonstration of the relationship between audible and inaudible sound and resultant patterns (form), but it would indeed fall into the category of sacred geometry as it is not intended to have an application beyond its primary effects.

                  All physical objects have two primary aspects, one eternal and one expressed. Cyamtic medicine works by comparing these two at the energetic level of presence and coercing the differences betwen these two back into the constatnt flow of energy that describes each entity uniquely. Said another way, every organ and biological system has a unique frequency and when combined, the entity has a signature frequency. Over time the body's changes vary from the primordial blurprint that pre-exists this form and isolated areas within the energy field become weakened by environmental, emotional, dietary, psychological etc. reasons. Om is a tone that when hummed or embedded into the energy field of another entity, can perform the same result as a cymatic treatment of an ancient temple whose proporitions resonate healing freqauencies or what is being sidovered today, that crop circles have varying frequencies including 900 reported cases of healings that have occured by people whom have visited these 'etheric sonic temples'. These notions undoubtly invite ekspticism but science may ultimately prove not to be less truthful than how we feel and what we know and what we experience.

                  I found an excerpt that offers some scientific info on teh Schuman resonance. I have not been involved with the measuring but I know quite a few who have:

                  "I am a scientist who has worked in both geophysics and in medicine. I know do work with the EEG (Brain Wave Machine). Brain waves are driven at the same rate as frequecies of extremely low frequency (ELF) radio waves as well as by rhythmic sounds and light flashes. The pulses produce higher frequency harmonics. With the ELFs, some people are effected and some are not. The hum is propbably not caused directly by the ELF waves but rather by its physiological effect on the nervous system. The most likely source of the ELF radiation is the Shumann resonances, which occur all over the planet but have local maximums and also periodic increases.

                  The Schuman resonances are standing extremely low frequency (ELF) electromagnetic waves. There frequencies are in the same range as brain waves. They vary in intensity locally and temporally, depending on the distance between the surface or the earth and the ionosphere, which form two conducting layers separated by an insulating layer. These ELF waves seem to amplify brain waves, and through the quantum Zeeman-Stark Effect cause other changes. They also drive brain waves of the same frequency and of harmonic frequencies.

                  Some recent work I have done with electroencephalography (EEG) indicates that observation or measurement in the quantum sense by the brain is associated with a 8 to12 Hz. or ELF frequency. So, external ELF waves may actually
                  "scramble" conscious process. Sounds or flashing lights of this frequency have also been reported to cause disorientation, consistent with an effect on consciousness.

                  Shuman resonances are best measured by the horizontal component of the atmospheric magnetic field. They have been measured all over the earth. Frequency peaks in cycles per second are reported at 8, 14, 22, 26, 32, and 38. These waves little travel around the earth in a fraction of a second. Lightning adds to the 8 Cycle Schuman resonance. The source of the Schuman resonance seems to be cosmic radiation caught up in the ionosphere. Locally, it is possible that the radio wave output of our own brains me be making a contribution, but this seems unlikely. I am very interested in the possible relation between the Hum, the Shuman resonance, and the human EEG and ERP (event related potential) profile, and hope I can be of service."

                  It is my take that there is no difference between mind and body with personal experiecnes leading to this knowing. Science futilly attempts to keep the body and the data distinct despite mountains of data to the contrary. We have to know ourselves better in order to accept these higher (literally) measures of existence. If you wish a pure scientitifc explanation, you will have to be convinced by the known frequencie adn their effects and the relationship between technology and biology. Eventually, the revised awareness gives way to a revised understanding. The mind ALWAYS comes after the feeling.

                  >> Not an idea for casual exploration on a soundsystem at a party, eh? :)

                  I went to a party in Bakersfied, CA this weekend that got pretty close!
                  • This is the maximum depth. Additional responses will not be threaded.

                    Re: i found this picture

                    Mon, September 24, 2007 - 5:59 PM
                    Walkin,
                    From the amount of typos in this last piece,I reckon you did ! LOL.
                    Always stimulating...

                    Are ELFs the same as telluric currents ?
                    And my information from my studies for my degree in parapsychology(1977) was that only theta brain waves were considered low frequency.
                    Is my assumption and information out of date ?
                    Is an ERP(event related potential)a brain wave function,and is it the same as the expectancy curve(or spike) reported in creative subjects (me)when experiencing the "Eureka Phenomena"( a creative breakthrough in problem solving that registers as a spike in Alpha,and other indices...) when monitored for brain wave activity.
                    "the mind always comes after the feeling"
                    If we can once again learn to listen to our bodies the mind will surely follow. I believe this very strongly...
                    Is the 128 cps I mentioned before have any relevance that you know of. Is it significant for some reason ?

Recent topics in "Cymatics"

Topic Author Replies Last Post
Cymatic Software? Unsubscribed 25 June 18, 2014
Sanskrit and Hebrew characters through cymatics? Nathan 31 March 27, 2012
Killing us softly Kathie Wallace 0 March 21, 2011
Dreaming the New World into Being Kathie Wallace 1 September 10, 2010